Christopher D.: Freedom Fastrack I’m here with Jack Delosa, and I’m so excited. I’ve been wanting to have the man who started the Entourage on for a while. This guy’s a powerhouse. I read his book, Unprofessional, that became a bestseller in three weeks. He’s a guy that I’ve looked up to in Australian business for quite a while. The reason why I’ve looked up to you is not only, Jack, the ability for you to get out and do the videos. Not only the ability to create such testimonials. I’ve met a lot of people that have worked with you. The thing I find so profound with what you’ve done is the movement that you created. Welcome to the show man. I’m so excited to have you on.
Jack Delosa: Thanks, Chris, glad to be here, mate.
Christopher D.: Dude, let’s get around the pleasure for the intro. I know the Australians will know who you are. Everyone else around the world, I’m sure they’d love to hear a little bit about your story because no one lands on top of the mountain.
Jack Delosa: Yeah. I certainly didn’t land on top of the mountain. Funnily enough, for me, my career I suppose if you like, started at the age of 5. My parents rented a non-profit organization called Breaking The Cycle. They’d take long-term unemployed youth off the street. They’d put them through a program, and they’d place them into employment. They were the most effective employment agency for long-term unemployed youth in Australia. That’s the environment that I grew up in, sort of taken youth that were severely at risk, and on and off drugs, and in and out of jail, or from abused homes, and seeing their lives turn around if you like, and then seeing them in sustainable and meaningful employment.
That was my world when I was five, six, seven, eight. I think there’s been a number of things that happened throughout my life, but that’s probably the fundamental one that has sort of shown me the power of education, and the power of, regardless of background into an environment where there’s enough TLC, there’s enough support, there’s enough practical education. They can truly build a future that’s meaningful for them.
I knew at a very young age, I wanted to go into education. At 18, I started my first business. It went terribly. It was a business call center here in Australia, in Melbourne. I made and view those few years as my apprenticeship period if you like. A couple of businesses later, I had a company called MBA Education. That was my real first home run. We would help, you know, we’d advise and educate small to medium size business owners on raising money from investors, acquiring businesses, and building [inaudible 00:03:01] off of the excess. We did that.
To a good degree and to quite substantial degree, we helped sort of shift the needle over here in Australia in terms of small to medium enterprise successfully raising money from investors, and building value, and all that sort of stuff. That gave me the foundation and the credibility to ultimately start the Entourage, which is today Australia’s largest education institution for entrepreneurs. We’ve got about 300,000 members around the world. We’ve also got the Entourage Bang store, which delivers advisory, well, consulting on innovation and entrepreneurship to some of the world’s largest companies like Suncorp, Telstra, universities, governments from around the world, as well as an investment fund that invests in different companies.
Everything I do that is about how do we enable the next generation of entrepreneur and innovators, and we do that through education, consulting, and investment.
Christopher D.: I love it, man, and it’s been great to watch. I first heard about you, I think in 2012, from a friend of mine named Andrew Davis. He said he was coming and [inaudible 00:04:06] at some of your events and things. I remember looking at it going, “Wow, that looks really cool.” It’s been great to … I think it was 2012, maybe 2013. I’m not sure. It’s been great to see just how far it’s come and what you’re doing.
There really is a wave of entrepreneurship sweeping the planet, isn’t there? It seems to be everybody is out for it at the moment.
Jack Delosa: Absolutely. Entrepreneurship is a rising tide globally. I think people of any age are looking at the traditional way of doing things over the last 50 to 100 years, and really asking themselves the question of why this whole production line of go to school, go to university, get a job, work your ways up. In Australia, the average person retired with $71,000 in their superannuation, which is like their pension or whatever. It’s a disheartening path, the traditional path.
The other macro factor is that there’s also been like this popularization in entrepreneurship, and there’s some benefits and some drawbacks from that. One of the benefits are that 20 years ago on the cover of magazines, you’d see people like Bono or whatever rock stars were around at the time research people like Mark Zuckerberg, or Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Oprah Winfrey. I think more and more, people are starting to question the old way of doing things, and are starting to realize that to take your destiny into your own hands is not only more intelligent, but also more meaningful.
Christopher D.: Yeah, you’re so right. It’s interesting to watch that movement. Obviously, being an entrepreneur myself, there is a lot of things that we need to learn. You, being the creator and founder of the largest education company that actually educated entrepreneurs, I would love to dig in and really discover what entrepreneurs need to learn the most. 300,000 members, what are some of the problems you see over and over again. I’d love to just let you let rip on the biggest problems you see and the biggest things that they need to learn.
Jack Delosa: Yeah, it’s one of those questions to go, where do I start. There’s a lot man, and that’s the whole point. That’s why Entourage has been relatively successful and popular is because there is no road map, and so much of it is about failing forward. Common mistakes, I think the first one is around an entrepreneurs biggest strength is that they love to pursue opportunity. Our biggest weakness is that we love to pursue opportunity.
Particularly in early stage business owners, what you find is an unbridled enthusiasm to pursue anything that’s shining. We try and sort of be all things to all people, and maybe start two or three business at the same time, or whatever it might be. We often see where business owners just spread themselves too thin, and not have one focal point of focus on one product, or one business, or one strategy, but they try and build three or four things at once.
I’ve never seen anybody successfully start two businesses at once, anybody ever. I’ve seen people start one business, get it off the ground, move onto the next. I’ve never seen anyone do it concurrently. Even, if you look at Branson. He’s a part owner in 300 companies today. What we forget is that in the 10 years he had one company. It was Virgin Records. He sold it for a billion dollar, that some of that cash helped him float the airline to a greater degree. Then he started diversifying because he had a third of a billion dollars. He was able to employ the best people in the world to go after any play that he wanted to pursue. For the first 10 years, he did one thing.
To that point number one, I’d say the lesson there is pick one thing, and try and become the best in the world at it.
Christopher D.: It’s actually huge advice. A lot of people, aspiring entrepreneur especially, they do then. Here’s what I see and I think that you’ve touched on it really nicely is there’s a J-curve in business. When you start off, you first go backwards basically and then it starts to kick off. Starting two or three just means you just get to experience the crappy part of business multiple times.
Jack Delosa: That’s right. Again, the J-curve, I love the term J-curve by the way, because that’s really accurate. If you do three business at once and you’ve got three business spiraling down, it’s infinitely more difficult to get that turning point to then get your curve looking up. This is what happens, right, versus the other, to your questions earlier around the mistakes some of the people make, the most common ones is what I think people need to realize is business is hard. Business is slow. Business can be frustrating. It is an uphill slope.
What happens is someone starts a business, and they’re a year in, or two years in, or three years in. They’re like, “Wow, man, I thought I was going to make a million dollars in my first years. I’m still not making money.” Then, “Well, I’ve got this other idea. I’m going to start this magazine. This magazine and I’ve got to move to another state, but don’t worry, it’s complimentary to my existing business. It’s going to be awesome.” It’s this funny thing over there that we’re not yet familiar with the challenges of, but we are very familiar with the challenges of our existing plan. Grass is always greener thing.
Then we go, “Ah, let’s go chase this magazine thing while we’ll keep this plate spinning, but we’ll also go chase this magazine thing.” Then they go chase the magazine thing. Then in two years, three years time you realize that that has just as many challenges as your strategy A. Now you got two things, two plates spinning, and neither of them are profitable yet.
We just need to realize that being on that downward slope of the J-curve is not necessarily a bad thing, and while you want to get it turned around as fast as possible, your best chance of doing that is to double down and focus on whatever it is you’re doing. Now, that’s not to say that you don’t iterate, and change, and be flexible. You do all of that, but do all of that within one play and one path.
Christopher D.: It’s such great advice, because here’s what I see a lot of times is yes, the grass is greener on the other side, but also the grass is greener where you water it.
Jack Delosa: That’s right.
Christopher D.: The thing is, I can just see so many people creating more than one business, and they literally double their amount of problems. Do you know what I mean, Jack? They have this one problem, let’s say-
Jack Delosa: Or triple
Christopher D.: Sorry?
Jack Delosa: Or triple. It’s this exponential thing that goes on.
Christopher D.: It’s massive. If one, they have a problem and let’s say leads in one business and they can’t get enough leads. They go, “Oh, this, it must be the business.” They go and start another one. There’s still no leads, but now they’ve got two lots of tax returns, and two lots of customers, and two lot … It can really get to the new entrepreneur and they can really get themselves stuck. Focus, it seems to be the biggest thing of our talk today.
Jack Delosa: 100%.
Christopher D.: Other than that, let’s say the person gets up and they get focused on one thing, what do you find that people keep on coming back to? What are some of the moves and things they need to understand to really get their business working?
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Jack Delosa: I think in the early day it’s around product market fit. You need to have something that genuinely addresses a consumer and market demand, something that people want, something that’s priced appropriately, and something that fits within a business model that could be delivered in a profitable way. While we need to obsess about the consumer, we need to be intelligent enough to work out how to wow and service that consumer while doing so in a profitable business model. If the business model isn’t profitable, then the business won’t be around for very long. Then the consumer loses, business loses, your staff lose, you lose. Profitability is incredibly important.
I think leveraging marketing, like old school marketing tactics of sort of being superseded by a lot more effective marketing channels these days, so whether that’s building your brand through the media in a way, which is obviously free, whether it’s doing it through building audiences and building a tribe on social media, and building an email database so that you can speak to them. When you send out a message or when you send out an offer, they’d buy.
You know high profit marketing sales, they’re having a sales process inside of a business that can be replicable, that you could hire people in to drive sales on your behalf, because you’ve developed and established an actual sales process that walks your customers through a particular journey in order to get to a point of purchase. That’s probably … Then I suppose hiring as well. You need to know the right … Well, you need to know how to hire the right people and how to assess them on their merits. I think those are probably the three or four things that are critical to a C-stage, startup-stage venture.
Christopher D.: Those are some huge moves, and I’ve got them written down here, listeners. First is product market fit, then profitability, leveraging marketing, the sales process, and hiring the right team. I want to make a little bit of a shift, because you, like me, have been able to build some successful big businesses. I would really love to hear what your take is on firstly, it’s a two part question, so that you have a bit of time to prep yourself with it.
The first scenario I really want to understand is what you think was the biggest shift that you had to make internally between the guys that was making in the hundreds of thousands, to the guy that had the business in the million. Then the second thing that I really would love to hear from you is about how other people saw you different as you had to have that shift, and how you had to handle the success, I guess. The first part that I’d really love to hear is what was the shift for you to make that big move from hundreds of thousands to millions?
Jack Delosa: Mate, that is such a good questions. It’s such a good question. I think I was actually thinking about this the other day. I’m not entirely sure I have a definitive answer. What I was thinking about, and I certainly don’t say this from a place of ego, more probably from a place of encouragement for anybody listening to this is I can’t remember when I mentioned earlier, I started my first business at 18. I remember working at … Someone mentioned a business doing a million dollars a year. I just worked out how much in revenue. I worked out how much revenue that would need to be each week. Obviously, it’s about $20,000 a week assuming, 50 weeks to the year.
Christopher D.: Right.
Jack Delosa: I just remember thinking like there at 18, sitting there going, “How on earth could anyone ever generate $20,000 a week. That’s just insane. It was like your kid is starting out playing basketball, thinking how could I ever be as good as Michael Jordan. It just seemed like such a distant pipe dream. We started a business last year, and in our first 12 months, we did over a million dollars. It wasn’t … Again, I don’t say this from a place of ego, more from a place of encouragement. It wasn’t that challenging.
What I was thinking was, and the reason I was thinking this recently was we’re in a board meeting recently, and it was sort of the 12, 13-month mark. I remember thinking while at 18 I couldn’t envisage how you would start a business and do a million dollars in a year, today I’m in a place where I can’t imagine starting a business and not doing a million dollars in the first year. That’s not because I’m awesome. That’s just because I’ve been in business now for 12 years, and you’re emotional fitness and your commercial capability exponentially increases each year. When you’ve made as many mistakes as I have, you’d be an idiot not to work out how do things along the way.
I think it’s … What changes from the hundreds thousands and the millions of dollars is scale. You learn how to scale. Rather than the business being you, and maybe four or five staff or whatever it might be. It’s kind of very reliant on you. It’s more about building the right structures, building the right marketing, building the right sales process, and bringing people into an infrastructure that can drive and scale the business alongside and behind you. It’s the difference between viewing yourself as a sole operator or a small business if you like and going, “I’m building an asset here and I need to build an environment, an ecosystem that people can step into it and help drive this business forward, which fundamentally is predicated on process.
Christopher D.: That’s such a huge gift. Here’s what I’ve found, and I love that you talk so much about process and systems, because I’m a huge system’s person. We also had a similar result. We just have our last business crept past the million dollar mark in under 10 month. This is what I said to my business partner. I said, “Do you know what? It’s easier now.”
I want to ask you this question, see if it’s the same for you. For me, playing at the higher level, business is so much easier, because here’s what I’m doing as I’m looking at creating that million dollar business within seven months, and creating something fast, therefore I go hire talent equal to the amount of revenue I’m going to create. Whereas, when I was in this startup phase, I was looking at trying to … How can I get people cheaply or how can I do it myself?
Jack, it got easier for me when I made that shift to I actually want to have smarter people in my business. Did something similar happen to you?
Jack Delosa: 100%, and that’s a really good point. One of the things I often talk about is the bigger the vision, the easier it is to execute. You want to have just a small- and by the way, that’s called, like by the way, I know a lot of people that want to have a business with three or four staff, make a few hundred, profit a few hundred grand a year, have a great lifestyle and spend time with their kids and go surfing.
I don’t judge that at all? In fact, if anything, I’m envious of that. The thought of that is just awesome to me. I’ve want to build substantial businesses. I don’t have kids myself yet, and so I’m able to pour a high degree of focus into business. There’s no right or wrong. By the way, you can also set up a three or four person company highly systemized and have a great lifestyle as well. If you’re going to do a big play, you’ve got that product market fit, and you’re able to sort of demonstrate profitability in the underlying business model, and therefore attract better talent and might better raise getting money along the way, whatever the case may be.
If you can get to a position where you can hire people who are smarter than you, and that doesn’t mean that you abdicate responsibility. You absolutely need to be across every fucking thing that goes on in your business, from your marketing stats, to your sales conversions, to your delivery ratios, to your operations, and to particularly your financial management. You need to be across it all and understand it all to a degree, but if you can employ people smarter than you to build it and help drive it and help form it, yeah, it’s much more enjoyable way of doing business.
Christopher D.: Yeah, I agree 100%. I’m with you, man. I’ve done the freedom thing and I enjoyed it, but for me, it really got to that place where I was like, “You know what, I want to create something big, and business is the best place to create a contribution.”
You said something magnificent in there and I need to pull it out. You said, you talked about responsibility. Here’s what I see the people that aren’t succeeding is they hire a consultant. They hire someone that’s smarter than them. Then when something doesn’t work, I hear them pointing the finger.
Now, honestly, I know that some of the time the consultant has done a bad job, but I want you to tell me that what’s it like when you’re absolutely responsible to getting those smarter people and taking responsibility. How do you actually know enough about all those different things that you can manage them? I think I know the answer, but I’m going to see if you think the same thing.
Jack Delosa: Yeah. Let me talk firstly about the consultant thing or hiring people, what’s your responsibility and what’s not. For me, it comes down to three letter. CEO. If you’re the CEO or the managing director, it doesn’t matter who made what mistake. As unfair as it is, and mate, I’ve had some terrible highs in the past, and people that have made monumental mistakes that I was unaware of. I don’t say that, that’s a criticism to myself. As the CEO, I was unaware, therefore being blissfully ignorant to it. I can’t then go, “Well, it was this person’s decision,” or, “It was this person that did that.” That doesn’t make sense because this is my ship. This is my business, all of that sort of stuff. Therefore, as unfair as it is, everything that goes wrong in your business is your fault. Everything is your responsibility.
How do you stay across it all. Reports. You need to have a company scoreboard. You need to have a dashboard with all of the company-wide metrics that go like in terms of what are the drivers of the commercial success of your business. If you start over, and every business has five areas, five areas only. Marketing … I’ll walk you through it, a sort of consumer journey metric kind of way.
Marketing, so you go toward market stuff. Sales, delivery, operations, finance. We tell people about something. They buy it. We deliver it. There’s an underlying operations of the company. At the end of the day, we count the money and manage the money to make sure everything happens smoothly. Hopefully, we make a bit of profit at the end of the day.
Across those five areas, and again, it depends on your business and how many staff you have, and all that sort of stuff. There’s probably 15 to 20 different metrics, and they will be summary metrics. There will be 15 to 20 different metrics that would be able to highlight the success, or like the health or otherwise of your business at any given point. For marketing, it will be things like leads generated, cost per leads, lead to sale conversion, cost per acquisition, marketing expand, marketing spend to ROI on revenue generated this months.
Then you go over to sales, and it will be … If you got a sales team, for instance, it might be led to contract, contract to proposal, or consultation, or whatever, consultation to sale. Then you go to delivery. There’s probably 15 to 20 different measures that you need to be across, and they’ll be the macro and underlying drivers of the success of your business, and you get that information coming to you either daily or weekly from the people who own those functions.
Christopher D.: Perfect. It’s the exact answer I was hoping for, because I’ve been telling everyone, Jack, on my list. I’m like, “Metrics, metrics, metrics. You got to have metrics.” I’m just so glad that you said that. I want to talk a little bit about your vision, Jack, because here is why. I’ve just noticed some really big trends with massive billionaires. Here’s the things. Number one, they focus on contribution. Number two, they have a simple vision that they can actually really measure with a scoreboard and you nailed it.
For a few examples. Steve Jobs wanted to put the computer into a smart phone. That’s all he wanted to do. Bill Gates want to put a computer in everyone’s home. Henry Ford wanted to make sure that everyone had an automobile. Facebook wanted one billion users. They have this focus. My question for you is what’s your big forward focus vision? Where are you going, man?
Jack Delosa: Well, I want to make education effective again.
Christopher D.: That’s bad ass. Just every part of my body had to go, “You’re such a badass.” That’s awesome. I’ll leave you to continue, sorry.
Jack Delosa: I think that’s … Well, I’d say that’s one of the largest challenges and opportunities that planet faces right now is as the world continues to change, and the rate of change continues to increase faster than ever before, traditional education at all levels, primary school, secondary school, tertiary doesn’t change at particularly the same rate.
That divide continues to widen and we need to … That the private sector. It’s not going to come from governments. It’s not going to happen- Private sector, I believe needs to step into that gap to get better at educating people on the skills and capabilities that are required today, not 30 years ago. Today, and for the next 20 or 30 years.
Christopher D.: Right. Brother, I’m so aligned with that. I feel that entrepreneurs are going to change the world. We’re the ones that always have. I’m so glad that we got to connect on this show. I would love to give you opportunity to talk to you about your book. The amount of education that you put into your first book with the Unprofessional. I have read it. I was walking onto a plane, I think in Perth, flying across to Melbourne. I read it in the whole journey and I loved it. It was a couple of years back. You’ve released a new book since then, haven’t you?
Jack Delosa: Definitely.
Christopher D.: Would you like to share and tell the audience a bit about that book, and what’s in it, and why it’s so important for them all to get it?
Jack Delosa: Yes. It’s quite aligned to what you were saying a second ago when you mentioned Gates and Jobs. My entire life, I’ve studied and researched people who have changed the course of history forever, people who have contributed a larger than life legacy. Whether that’s Michelangelo, who was a painter turned sculptor. 500 years ago Michelangelo painted the roofs of the Sistine Chapel. Whether it was Albert Einstein, who rewrote physics 100 years ago, whether it was Nelson Mandela, who lived the anti-apartheid movement more recently, or J. K. Rowling, who is the author of Harry Potter, and is now credited with doing more for childhood literacy than any other person in history. Oprah Winfrey, who’s touched lives of billions, you kind of go …
The other thing is that I’ve met with and I had the opportunity to work with some of these people, like Richard Branson for instance. The further I would go in my career and the more incredible people I would meet, one of the things that was most profound for me was in the discovery of their humanity, was in discovering that they’re people just like you and I. They’ve got insecurities just like you and I. They’ve got vulnerabilities and shortcomings just like you and I. What I wanted to do is sort of go through history, and look at those that have made an impact and ask the question, “How did they get so much out of themselves, and how did they touch the hearts and minds of so many others?”
There’s no system. There’s no … but there are certainly guiding principles that correlate from individual to individual, from era to era, and from field, to field, to field, to field, to field- sorry, approached art 500 years ago, did the same thing as that Richard Branson says about entrepreneurship today in terms of guiding principles at the high level. I found that fascinating. That’s what I’m focused about. It’s not about them. It’s more about you, and how you can step into the best version of yourself to create a vision that inspires you for your life. That might be I want to be a great mom, or I want to be a great dad. It’s not about scale. It’s more about how deeply meaningful is it to you. Then offer some strategies as to how you can move toward that.
Christopher D.: I can’t wait to read it.
Jack Delosa: You should, man.
Christopher D.: Yeah, it’s going to be absolutely awesome.
Jack Delosa: Yeah. If anyone is interested, what’s the best thing to do? Probably just go to the, T-H-E hyphen entourage.com.au. The, T-H-E, hyphen, entourage, E-N-T-O-U-R-A-G-E.com.au. You can sort of become a member of the Entourage. It’s completely complimentary. You’ll be able to find something for Unwritten there as well as Unprofessional, which is my first book.
Christopher D.: I love it, man. We’ll put all of those in the show notes as well, listeners, so that you can all get that. Brother, I’ve got two questions that I ask every single person I ever see or guest I have on the show. I know some of you, listeners, have skipped to this part. You should go back and listen to the whole episode. It was awesome.
I’m watching my stats and I’m seeing who skipped to this part. There’s two questions, Jack, are really important, because it shows what you would do if you’re in a place of the person listening right now getting started, making moves. Here’s the first part to the question. If right now you got stripped of everything, all of your context, all of your resources, all of your money, you had nothing. You were just coming out. You were just Jack and you had to start out, build your business again. How would you start? What would you do?
Jack Delosa: I’d ask myself what do I want to dedicate my life to, and what do I think I can be the best in the world at. That’s not to assume that you’re anywhere near it yet, right, like the world full of people that became great, who started off and when they set off they sucked. You don’t need to be … I’m not really concerned with where you are today, but it’s more about what would you do for the rest of your life if money wasn’t a thing, and what do you think you could be really, really good at? Try and get those two things to align and start there.
Christopher D.: What a great answer. I’ve never had that answer before. I love that you didn’t go tactical driven. That’s awesome. Someone has to be the greatest, someone has to be the best. That same someone first didn’t know how to walk as well. Great advice, man. Here’s the second part to the question. If you were to go back 12 years to the start of your entrepreneur journey, and you had two minutes to give the younger version of you any advice, what advice would you give you?
Jack Delosa: Your following a nontraditional path in life, therefore you will face resistance, you will face protest, and you will come up against conventional wisdom at every step of the way. That is okay. In fact, it is inevitable when pursuing an untraditional path, so then remember when the voice inside your head is louder than the voice that’s outside your head, that’s when you’ve become the master of your life.
Christopher D.: Boom. Dude, I’ve had such a good time here, man. I know that we’re coming to the end of our time. I would love you to share any last thoughts, or anything you want to impress across to people listening today before we do finish up.
Jack Delosa: Man, I think we’ve covered it greatly. I loved the questions, and we also had a lot of fun. Just a thank you to you, Chris, for the invite and the chat. I really enjoyed it.
Christopher D.: Yeah, me too, man. Let’s get you back on sometime soon. I’d love to hear and get a recap in a few months, where you’re at, and what you’re doing.
Jack Delosa: 100%.
Christopher D.: I’ve got a book coming in the main. It’s whisking its way over here to San Diego. Once I read the book, we can probably get on and talk a bit about what’s in the book, and that will be awesome, man.
Jack Delosa: Yeah, that will be great. Let’s do it.
Christopher D.: Hey, thank you so much for what you’re doing for entrepreneur. Thank you so much for being on here, and being somebody that we get to look sideways to and go, “We can also get there and do that,” because that’s what I feel from you. I just feel this, you know what, here’s the education. I can do it, you can do it. You lead by example, but also bring other people up. You’re a legend and I really appreciate it.
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